I disagree with point #3 too, for different reasons. When you're chronically poor, you're chronically stressed, and healthy food isn't numbing enough to help you cope. So junk food (which is safer than alcohol) keeps you numb, and therefore sane, and alive, a while longer. Poor people *need* their drugs. I speak from experience.

The poverty itself needs to be dealt with.

OMFG- could you be anymore offensive? How's the view from your virtuous foodie, fat shaming high horse?

1st- the picture- using headless fatties used to illustrate the obesity crisis is  demeaning to the people you act like you are trying to help.

Second- what poor people really need is less ability to get enough food by restriciting what they can buy? FYI- WIC Already does that. Food stamps are an emergency level diet to begin with. Which means that the allotments are designed to make people buy the cheapest, highest calorie foods in order to get enough calories to survive.

In order for me to feed my kid and I a virtuous foodie diet of organic fruits and veg- I would have to spend over $600 a month to get enough calories to live on. We don't have that kind of money, and food stamps at the most are half of that.

Perhaps you might want to come off your high horse and wallow in the poverty muck for a minute and get yourself an education on what it's really like to feed a family when your below the poverty line.

First- let's talk sexism

Who is most likely to head poor families? Women. Who is Greg worried about in his article? Poor fat girls. You cannot talk about poverty and obesity without talking about women, and when you act like a condescending fauxgressive trying to teach poor women and girls how to eat right, you're being a sexist.

Also Greg- when the first sentence of your reply is a classic sexist silencing technique of "silly girl, you don't mean what you think you mean" you're being a sexist.

And thanks for completely not addressing the offensive picture. That just makes it easier for meto not give you the benefit of the doubt.

The problem is not, and hasn't ever been, that we poor moms don't know how to eat right. We're American women, any American female over the age of 15 knows how to read lables and count calories. What we really don't need is one more layer of regulation in our already difficult lives from dudes in blue suits deciding exactly what we can or cannot put in our grocery baskets every week.

What we need is more resources, less shaming. And while Greg may have similiar ideas to mine, his come with a giant pile of classim (poor ignorant people need help choosing fruits instead of twinkies) and a desire to make the lives of poor people harder in exchange for the luxury of having enough food in their bellies.

Pardon me, for being an uppity poor mom and calling you out on your classism, fat-shaming and sexism. I thought this was Change.org, not status-quo-shame.org.

It is becoming a sad twist of fate that this is how other natios are viewing the american stanard of living as. It seems to be a common implacation of sorts to insue that the american quality of life is preceived as becoming a vulger obesitely lazy member of a free society.

Here is an idea.  Start a Garden, plants some vegetables and some fruit trees.  And if you don't live in a house (but an apartment) find a community garden.  And if there is no community garden, start one.  And if you don't know how to plant a lettuce plant, learn how.  It's that easy, well, of course you will have to work hard - but you are doing that anyway.  

You'll eat well & save money. Now there is two birds with one stone.

I would have to say, it seems, that #2 is the key.  When you educate, the rest will follow.  Imagine that, a healthy, educated population.  

Dear Greg-- I just wanted to let you know I thought this article was tremendous!  I have some issues with your third point, simply because austere government intervention and restriction has proven to be ineffective in instituting real change, but I still think that the points you are raising are very valid and important.  Addressing the insidious imbalance of national dollars given to corn and other grain subsidies at the expense of fruits and vegetables is critical, and instituting nutrition education across the board compulsory, in my opinion.

Thanks for posting and starting this conversation!

How about the fact that MSG and other food additives turn off the body's' natural signal telling them when they are full?

How about the fact that the rich people have enough money to buy foods that are not laced with pesticides, GMO, and nutrient poor?

Obese people are suffering from toxic load and malnutrition!

Get rid of the GMO food and get rid of the poisons in our food and water supply, president Obama!

First step to curbing obesity is making these people go exercise its called walking to the store instead of driving. If the person has a yard start planting your own veggies. On food stamps they should make it where they cant buy JUNK FOOD. I have seen many people buy JUNK FOOD with food stamps like SODAS and Candy This is not part of food It’s JUNK.

People can start learning how to make food from scratch and stop buying process foods, (STOP SHOPPING AT WAL MART) which has chemicals, which causes the body not to digest correctly. It’s really easy to do, but some rather buy junk food instead, because they are too lazy to do anything else.

I am poor and I don’t buy junk food I buy veggies and fruits and noodles and rice and meat on sale or fish on sale or tuna and I use coupons…  I have been homeless before and still did the same thing and survived.

Until you've lived in the inner city, or a dump, or a poverty stricken neighborhood, you may not know how DIFFICULT it is to dump the old habits you GREW UP WITH YOUR WHOLE LIFE PLUS THE FACT that your parents might NOT have been healthy when they conceived and bore you.

OLD HABITS DIE HARD and it's ALWAYS easy to condemn others for not being able to do what seems so easy for us...

when you're so fricking hungry, when you live in a world of drugs, poverty, stress, hopelessness, and CORPORATIONS DO EVERYTHING IN THEIR POWER TO SELL YOU THEIR LOW COST HIGH PROFIT CRAP then GMO corn chips seem like steak and lobster, or sprouts and fresh organic mango smoothies.

i'm losing heart with Change.org.

I'm beginning to see why "conservatives" have such a problem with "liberals."

Help the poor as you look down your nose at "them." "those people."

 AH cry to the wolf at the white house ok?

Cause I have been there done that, I was homeless in the past and living in a tent out in the woods... so don’t cry to me about old habits are hard to break.  

 I stop drinking COLD turkey and I stop doing drugs cold turkey and old habits are not hard to stop. I don’t look down on homeless people cause I have been there. I donate my items for them. I don’t donate to churches that believe Jesus needs the money.

A person needs to take responsibility for his or her own obesity rumps. No one will help them if they continue to eat foods, which would cause them health problems.

Sorry you can’t take the truth, that is what is wrong with some of Americans they cant take responsibility for their own actions. FYI I voted for Obama, but coming 2012 He lost my vote.

Well  I would think there are people who are homeless who are not over weight and yet no one cares for them.. I wonder doesnt people know that when a person doesnt eat because they are straving they dont get FAT they get thin ?

I see one area of complaint. In #3, you are blaming the poor for their own poverty.    Few if any go to there bosses and say "hey boss tyou are not making a Big enough cut, Pay me less than the cost of rents."

 By saying have the government cut out food stamps being able to buy processed food, you might also cut out their ability to buy cans of tuna fish, or canned corned beef, not just twinkles.  Canned Corned beef, are processed usually out of this country. Its right on the can.

I will give you a suggestion how to fix obesity after I tell you about On the 8th, a friend gave me a link to check out It was a Socialist Site.  It had an article about the housing through the stimulation package, applicants. It saw the blame for 50,000 people in need showing for 3,000 to 3,500 to be on the government.

That there should not be 50.000 in one area who needs help with housing, and the government should have told the people how few vouchers their were-so they would not waste their time. 

Yahoo's article told of scrimmage's  which needed Medics. It blamed the poor.  This is what the main stream media does to us. If there were 50,000 millionaires to bring together wanting a prize, they would bicker also. Do not think their are over 20,000 millionaires in America this is a guess.

How I would stop Obesity is to pay all workers the REAL Cost of living.  For to many food stamps are not a supplement, to our food costs but in reality its the whole shooting match.   I am glad you revealed the mainstream bias. I am glad people are telling you SO. We need to do that with advocates who want to end !/2 of poverty.

It is awful to have our advocates reaching to cure half of poverty, instead of fight the root of poverty. It is bad when our Activists do not understand the problem lays in the thought process of those a rung or two above, those we put down.  All jobs should be paying a REAL Livable wage. From flipping burgers, to being a store clerk, people should make the price of actually rent, and other basics.

The answer is simple to provide human rights.  The 30 agreed on on Dec 10th 1948 at the UN would be fine.

Solution: GIVE THE POOR A VOICE: Have mainstream media carrying the views from us not given enough money to thrive, and barely survive if we lived at budget costs everyday. 

People on SSI are given 2/3 of their needs. Workers are given 2/3 of their needs. TANF families are given 1/3 This is the America we got. Not the wise and passionate America we think we have. 

Think about it. There were over 50,000 given away for 3,500 slots. that is not even a one in 1,000.   We should be providing for the REAL NEED of our poor.  Not Blaming them.

I assume you did not Intend to blame. Even people with good hearts sometimes get it wrong.  

I am poor, I am waiting to have an interview for Food Stamps, it has been 3mo. since I applied. I have NO income, I am disabled waiting forever for SSI/Medicaid approval, as I SUFFER with hunger, as my Mom buys me a few groceries per week, but it is never enough, and rarely is it the RIGHT stuff I need to be eating, esp. with Diabetes and Very high BP, and I know I need to loose weight, but my health conditons complicate it, without medical care and going hungry make it worse. I wish I could get the food I need to be eating delivered to me, with little to no cost, as I cannot pay. I cannot drive? When will someone care about America's Forgotten? When? Why abandon us to die under a bridge?

No American should be hungry and certain no child in this entire world should be malnourished. If we work to leave this a better world. Then we are doing the job we were born to do.

I do not qualify for food stamps. But I would for Greg to say he understands our message, even if he disagrees with it.

When can we get Greg and people like him to admit the poor or not the problem few of goes to our bosses and say By the boss, you yatch needs the barnacles removed my little one will just eat less this week, we will water down the soup, take the barnacle cleaning cost out of my check?

That is the only way we can be blamed for low paying jobs.  And the need for Food stamps for people at those low paying jobs.  Food stampts would br un-needed if everyone was paid a REAL Cost of living.

I wish I had the money to get everyone food. I go to the food bank myself.  The selection is not great health wise, but it gets day before expiration bread, cereal, and pasta.

We are a family of 5 living below poverty level.  When money gets tight, the first things we cut out are pop and snacks.  There are times we have had rice in our cupboards and little else, but it filled the hole, and it's cheap.  Plus it's fairly nutritious.  I work at a convience store and it angers me that I see the majority of food stamps going for pop.  Most of the time a person will pay cash for their beer or cigarettes immediately following.  I believe the food stamp program enables poor choices.  It creates an attitude of "I am entitled." 

At the store we have coupons for an assortment of items including cereal and milk.  I have yet to process a coupon along with a food stamp card.

I have to disagree with part of #3 in the fact that you can cut pop, and snack foods NOW and still leave a multitude of options.

We hunt, grow our own food, and bake our own bread when necessary.  Not once have I ever been angry because the government didn't offer to buy my soda and junk food for me.

There are some people who are determined to make it no matter what and some people who are determined to make excuses.  You could give them the world, and it wouldn't be enough.

I basically like this post, but also have problems with #3. In addition to what others have said, I feel that when you dictate to people, they tend to rebel, particularly when they are powerless in other ways.

An issue that I didn't see mentioned is the ability of food banks and pantries to handle donations of fresh meat and produce. Many food banks have limited capacity to store perishable goods and generally when there is a food drive one hears a call for canned or dry goods.

There is a program where I live where hunters can donate deer meat that they can't use, but this can only be done during hunting season, so much of this meat needs to be frozen. As a gardener who has periods when I get more of certain types of produce than I can use or easily give away, I would welcome it, if there was a nearby food bank that could use this and which didn't mind cleaning it, as that can be quite time consuming.

The bottom line is that there is a lot of food out there. It's a matter of the distributors of the donated food and their volunteers teaming up with the neighborhood gardeners or small farms that are willing to donate some and doing some pickups and cleaning it so that we can maximize the amount of healthy food available to those who can't afford it on the market.

There are also plenty of people who overbuy and who might give away some of their excess.

I know that I oversimplify and that what I'm talking about is generally seasonal. But, we need to look for as many ways as possible to address this issue and any increase in healthy food for the needy is an improvement.

Greg I really appreciated your post.  And I don't have as big a problem with #3 as some others do.  Here in Arizona we just made a change to our WIC program which I think is a vast improvement.  Our old way had a list of foods you could choose, and many of them were sugar and calorie laden foods--it was a "calorie program" not a "nutrition program".  Now participants will get vouchers specifically for fruits and vegetables.  Here is a link to the article in the Arizona Republic about it:

  http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/10/01/20091001wicfood1001.html

As for some of the criticisms here about "classism and paternalism" against poor people that may be true to some degree in some instances, but not in every case.  For those of you mentioning this please stop insisting that any suggestion for improvement is an example of this--it is just as ridiculous.  There are, in fact, a lot of poor (as well as wealthy) people who are stupid about nutrition.  Being poor doesn't automatically make you stupid about food any more than it does for any other person.  There are a lot of very priveleged teenagers (and adults) who also eat poorly and know nothing about nutrition.  The truth is there are poor people who know about nutrition, and there are poor people who don't. 

In our case here in AZ, a couple women quoted in the article were grateful for the changes (they didn't feel anyone was blaming them or treating them paternally).  And other people I've talked to on the WIC program readily admitted they knew nothing about nutrition, and were actually very grateful to have someone explain to them and teach them more about making healthier choices--and now the voucher program is reflecting that.

Just because someone provides somebody else with information and help (that many are grateful to get) does not mean it is some huge subjugation of human will, or some classist, sexist, paternalistic, condescending or judgmental act.  Some of the people on this site get a little carried away  in their overreaction to other people's ideas.  Anything that helps people on a voucher program get access to healthier food is a step in the right direction. 

I think that one of the most crucial things that would solve a lot of issues is to make MINIMUM WAGE equal to LIVING WAGE. Employers will complain that they "can't pay their workers that" and "the price will be passed onto the consumer", but that is bullshit (maybe the CEOs can take a "small" decrease or sell their 5th car). Besides, doesn't the right wing argue for the trickle-down effect? Well, if we pay our workers more, then they can afford to shop, which will stimulate the economy, right? Plus, there's a lot of discussion that decreasing the national obesity rate would decrease our national health care costs (which is obvious, considering obesity is one of the top medical costs), which will save everyone - and I mean everyone - money.

Plus, if workers are paid living wage, then maybe poorer folks won't have to work 2 or more jobs to be able to feed their family. AND, if they only have to work one full-time job, then they can start being involved in their children's schooling (a shown factor in decreasing the academic gap) or continuing their own education (like getting a GED or a college degree, something many homeless or poor do not have nor cannot afford to do).

What opportunities would open up when people need to work one full-time job to fulfill their monetary needs (and I mean necessities, not luxuries - but health care and education are necessities, to be clear)? Everyone does better when everyone does better.

I think waiting for the price of vegtables to go down to make the changes in what people can buy with assistance is not a good idea. If obesity is really getting bad, then we must act now. The cost of letting the problem go in the long run will be much worse for both people's health and the cost of caring for them.

The unavoidable conclusion of every poverty/obesity study and article should be that eradicating poverty by fairly redistributing America's wealth would be the most effective way to reduce obesity in America. If we had fewer poor people, we would have fewer fat people.

I agree with Deborah's suggestion, but feel that this is just part of what we need to do to combat obesity. We also need to:

1) Have universal health care

2) have health care practitioners be either on straight salary or get rewarded for outcomes, rather than procedures performed and medications prescribed.

3) Rein in the pharmaceutical industry in terms of profit allowed to be made and what they can advertise.

4) Have nutrition education in all the schools with a special emphasis on high school students who will soon have to provide for themselves.

5) Pay every worker a living wage and make it easier to get off of Social Security and public assistance by reducing the penalties for benefits recipients who find jobs.

6) Have more vocational training available for adults, especially the economically disadvantaged and people coming out of prisons and jails. New York's Educational Opportunity centers are a good model for this.

7) Find ways to get out of the military and prison businesses (such as legalizing and taxing drugs) so that we have more money for socially beneficial programs.

8) Require nutrition information on the menus of every chain restaurant over a certain size everywhere.

9) Subsidize low cost or free memberships to health clubs for the economically disadvantaged.

I'm sure that there are many other suggestions that people can think of. What we need is a holistic solution to this issue that we're all involved in, as we're all stakeholders as far as America's overall health.

Rock on! Absolutely.

I am so delighted to hear new people hear, With real ideas. I agree.  

If I have my way, next fall One of the groups I am part of, will ask for the underpaid or the poor to come up with ideas like the points stated by Andrew. It is time us underpaid, are given a voice.

I hope its time for another upheaval like at the last civil rights movement of the 1960's. Only without the bloodshed.  This time we will not be silenced. If one leader falls, we will fight on under their name.

I wrote to a person who seems tired of being blamed for their I was going to post just below the cry that she or he is tired of being fodder for those who are suppose to be acting for the poor.

Half of our advocates never been hungry or homeless in their lives. Change actual has poster and writers who understand. Leigh Grahams stuff, somehow bridges the divide.

 I want to write for them but guess my work in not while enough known To accomplish that.

But I am greatful to have a place to post where I can talk about a world without poverty. 

We have to educate our activist both on the net and in real live who only wish to end 50% of poverty.  No matter what label they place on themselves.

By focusing on 50%, they are not focusing on the real problem. Which is the attitude its fine to pay workers less than it cost to live.  Its NOT.  I agree with the late US Senator Ted Kennedy who I found out through Change said

"Any one working for a living should not be living in poverty"-

I take that a step further and say all people should be paid, THe REAL livable wage.

We need all of us to educate our leaders. Not to waste their breathe blaming us for being poor we did NOT go to our bosses and say "Please boss pay me LESS THan I need to pay my bills." That is the only way 70% a of Americans paid less than the REAL need could CAUSE THeir own poverty.

Greg, Actually i was commenting to a comment and wasn't so upset with you. I didn't make that clear.

In many ways I AGREE with you. AND, HORROR UPON HORRORS, I believe food stamps should ONLY cover fresh organic fruits and vegetables, humanely raised meat, whole grains and precooked organic meals in cans or fresh pak.

IN FACT, EVEN MORE HORRIFYINGLY, I believe food stamps should be DUMPED and instead, every eligible person should get packages of HEALTHY, DELICIOUS, NUTRITIOUS, ORGANIC bags of food!!!!!

Can't cook? No Problem. They can get the precooked packs also the soft chew or nourishing soups or concentrates, just add water.

AND ORGANIC (NON sweet crap infested "energy" bars) delicious whole meal bars that people can carry around, light weight.

THESE BARS WOULD HAVE sprouted whole grains, delicious natural fruits (the sweeter bars), protein bars would have SPROUTED BEANS, legumes and whole SPROUTED GRAINS, other protein bars would have SEEDS, NUTS (organic NON heat treated), ETC.

There would be BREAKFAST BARS, LUNCH BARS, DINNER BARS, DESSERT BARS.

There would  be SOFT chew or melt in your mouth bars for those who need it.

There would be baby bars, kid bars.

THESE handy handy bars may not be PERFECT, but THEY'D BE A HECK of a lot better than the CRAPPOLA being foisted in poor neighborhoods.

YOU KNOW WHO WOULD TRY TO STOP THIS???? Corporate BIGWIGS who MAKE TRILLIONS FOISTING CRAP on those who DON'T have ACCESS TO GOOD STUFF.

AND THEY LOBBY like HECK to get Congress to ALLOW their Sucky behavior.

Oh and also those who think we all have the right to destroy ourselves with government assistance.

NO!

I say give people REALLY GOOD WORTHY HEALTHY STUFF. Let them make their OWN money to buy Utter Crap.

~~~

Rich thinking:

"I'm rich and powerful, eat my crap." "When you buy my junk, you're just a LOSER anyway."

"Like, am I TYING your hands? FORCING you to eat my fast junk crap??? NOOOO."

"I wouldn't MAKE it if you didn't WANT it."

"Profit at YOUR expense? Awwww. I'm soooo SAD. NOT!"

"If you had half a brain, you'd get a GOOD job and buy the good stuff, like ME. I eat gourmet organic tidbits at the finest restaurants."

"You didn't study at school, you loser. You get what you DIDN'T work for, which is NOTHING, underling."

"I don't have time for your inferiority."

"Some win, some lose. You lost. HAH."

"It's LEGAL, you idiot. Try and stop me... I'll have you legislated to Hello and Back, you SOBee."

"I own the fricking world... you can do NOTHING about it, you second class citizen, you."

"I have friends in HIGH PLACES. I OWN IT. I PWN. HAAHAHHAA."

"It's war my friend... I win. You lose. Eat your junk and be quiet."

~~~

JUNK FOOD MAKES STOCKHOLDERS TONS of money money money.

It's ALL about the money. YOU KNOW WHAT? EVEN silly ME wouldn't sell GMO corn chips laced with GMO fructose high salt to KIDS. Or ADDICTIVE SODA. Would YOU?

EVil bad.

What to do?

TELL THEM it's WRONG. NO more foisting crap on kids, no more selling your fast fat frigging effed up funk to poor neighborhoods near schools PERIOD at the expense of the taxpayer.

You see, many people think poor people are "LESS THAN."

IN TRUTH, the LEAST OF US IS AS WORTHY AS THE GREATEST OF US.

The LOWLIEST homeless person is as WORTHY as the RICHEST BRILLIANT GENIUS.

The collection of energy that constitutes one person is NO DIFFERENT in the long run, than that of ANYONE else. 

Dump on the poor, the meek, and THEY will inherit the Earth you rich fool... All your riches at Monsanto in all your villas and underground bunkers will mean NOTHING and NEVER satisfy you.

It's your kids who will hate you most of all.

WOW - I'm so upset AGAIN.

IT SO PISziss me OFF when CRAP is fed to kids, CRAP is foisted on the "poor," CRAP is PACKAGED by clever propagandists to be a RIGHT for ADULTS and has to do with FREEDOM and the RIGHT to buy CRAP.

NO. the Gov'ts job is to provide TRULY good stuff to those who can't afford it, to teach people how to become self sufficient, how to be kind and respectful of others, yada yah.

THAT'S what schools need to teach. Not how to grow up and be an ignorant consumer.

Dog eat dog world? Only if That's What YOU ACCEPT.

(This is NOT a hit on you Greg at ALL - again, I agree with Most of what you say and MY IDEAS are even MORE SPURIOUS)

PS to Junk Food Manufacturers: You like junk food? EAT it yourself and feed it to YOUR KIDS.

When I was pregnant with my third child, we obtained WIC.  It was wonderful because there was enough milk, cheese, beans, peanut butter, cereal like Kix which didn't have gobs of sugar in it, things like that to help sustain us. 

One of the things that would help poorer people to eat better is to provide them with the means to plant gardens of veggies. 

If you will shop on the outside edges of the grocery store, you will be able to find more nutritious foods, even if you do shop at Walmart.  The dairy products are in the rear; the veggies are in the front; and the meats are along one side.  Venture in and get your toilet paper and then run to the check out. 

Well, I do think you're kinda out of touch...

And at one time so was I. 

In number 3 you say programs such as food stamps are meant to be supplemental - however - in reality and for many, food stamps are the MAIN source for survival. 

For instance - I live in a rural area where there is high unemployment and extremely limited resources...

I am a divorced (after 17 yrs of marriage) single mom of two growing boys...ages 11 and 16 (bottomless pits) 

I do not receive any child support due to domestic violence entering our household after 15 years of marriage, and when I attempted to live by filing for divorce he held me against my will, physically and sexually assaulted me in front of my children who tried to save me, which resulted in him being sentenced to 8 years in prison. A sentence in which the end result also caused a double victimization to the children and I. 

Both my parents are deceased...so it's just the kids and I surviving on my part time income as a writer for a local newspaper, and partial unemployment benefits. Which nets me aprox. 240 per week to survive on. 

240 to house, keep warm, provide clothing, keep clean and healthy ...my children. 

Food stamps for us ARE A MAIN source of survival and amount to 206 dollars in assistance per month...plus we have that once a month visit to our food pantry where the shelves are stocked with processed foods...you do whatever you can for survival

Am I proud of this...not for a moment - but through it I've realized it's easy to judge another and all the reasons why from a safe distance....which I do think your number 3 points to. 

If only it was as easy as 1, 2, and 3...............

Gardening vegetables is a matter of space, planning, work, climate, knowledge (or not being too proud to ask questions) and being willing to take what nature provides for free or very cheaply. Many people grow what they feel like growing, rather than growing what grows well in their space, hence end up fighting nature and/or spending significant money.

The problem for many poor people is that they live in inner cities where space is limited and the environment is often toxic.

However, if you do have sufficient space, there are nutritious food plants that are invasive species, thus hold their own against weeds and don't need much tending. Most of these plants are either perennials or seed themselves. Thus, once you get started (and I give out these types of plants for free each year as do some other avid gardeners) they do come back. But, they have seasons. Some like cold, some like heat, some like it dry, some like it wet, some like rich soil, etc. Find a cooperative extension of the agricultural college in your state and they'll have volunteers who would love to answer your questions, and often will volunteer to get a community garden started. Also, many towns have free mulch to fertilize your plants with.

The trick with plants that like different climates is to have something ready to pick during as much of the growing season as you can. You may not have what you want at all times, as you amy have become accustomed to. That costs money at the market. To live for free or close to it requires you to follow the seasons regarding what you eat, much as our ancestors did.

There are also "weeds" that are edible, such as dandelions, cattails, thistle, etc. it's a matter of knowing when to pick and how to use them.

But, don't forget that gardening is work, often hard work. There's weeding, dealing with pests, cleaning after picking, etc. But, the work is good for shedding a few pounds and getting in better shape, too.

Good luck!

Andrew,

Let them eat thistle? 

I know most middle-class people are well-meaning when they prescribe things like exercise, community gardens, and organic food for fat people on food stamps, but it does seem from some of these posts that unless you have actually lived in abject poverty with small children (as I have), it's hard to wrap your head around the devastation poverty wreaks on the body as well as the human spirit. 

Greg and Andrew's ideas, like those of many well-intentioned posters, are not without merit. Why have they been greeted with articulated or blind anger by other posters in this thread? Because the well-intentioned posters utterly fail to grasp the reality of the daily lives of mothers and children living in poverty.

Poor mothers of families are not poor by choice, ignorance, or lack of motivation. Mothers work hard just in raising and nurturing children, all of whom have intrinsic value whether they are white, black, brown, undocumented or the children of someone else's well-to-do family. The last things poor mothers need are any more limits imposed on their already severely limited choices in life, especially limits on which foods they may or may not purchase with food stamps. Many poor mothers are not only working hard to raise and nurture children, they also are working one or more jobs for income, yet they are unable to make ends meet.

Adding another workshift in the community garden may seem reasonable to a healthy childless person, but it's unfeasible unless someone else (I heartily suggest the single white college-educated male posters to this thread) volunteer your time to provide safe quality childcare for infants and small children while their mothers garden or search for cattails.

Finally, I recommend that anyone who thinks that poor people are too ignorant or unmotivated to make better nutritional choices than they already do pick up something by Maxine Baca Zinn and read her analyses of poverty carefully.

Gardening is a fricking PAIN. I should know since i've been experimenting on a low water EASY home grow solution for people in trailers, single rooms, apts.

ANSWER: container gardening IF you have a grow light bulb lamp and/or windows with interim sunlight.

MUST HAVES:
-  heirloom NATURAL seeds that reproduce
-  excellent base soil
-  protect from animals and kids
   (hands off - this stuff FEEDS us)
-  Containers
-  safe plastic to cover soil
-  10 minutes per day to water, pick of any little visitors, gently poke soil, say hi to plants (Yes! )

You HAVE to tend to your little container gardens at least once a day for 10 minutes. If you can't do that, then gardening's not going to work. Commitment and consistency IS necessary but ONLY 10 MINUTES a day 5 days a week.

You need a little rolly flat to move your little garden to window positions.

You need to make sure kids and friends LEAVE the garden alone. (hard to do, i can't keep my hands off friend's gardens)

And You HAVE to take the failed plants with the good. YOU WILL FAIL sometimes.

Raise kids to nurture their little container gardens. The gardens are like PETS. It becomes a work of love. TRUE.

When you get your first tomato, your first head of romaine, your first salad with fresh herbs, your first potato, AND it tastes like HEAVEN, you will be HOOKED.

But the garden WILL need attention. Period. And, if you are serious, you will need to expand your garden until it provides CONSIDERABLE food in one small room.

YOU WILL BE AMAZED.

I have some old pictures here: cdin.org/seeds/heirloom_instructions.html

Is it easy? I don't think so. But it's not hard. You HAVE to be consistent - plants are like kids.

The ONLY solution I can think of is to have the container gardens PRE MADE, easy instructions, everything included EXCEPT water.

The government should HAND THESE OUT for FREE (They're giving Away TRILLIONS to banks that spend it on YACHTS, FOIE GRAS, TRUFFLES and SEX ANYWAY!)

When your neighbor has good veggies, maybe you'll kind of take care of your easy little garden too.

THIS IS JUST an idea! NO i'm NOT trying to be cavalier. NOBODY HAS TIME THESE days to do ANYTHING extra!

We are overwhelmed. HENCE, my desire to make available SUPER EASY low cost indoor gardening ideas.

I don't sell JACK. I just give away seeds when I can.

~~~

Re: Food stamps

If I had foodstamps I'd buy WHO KNOWS what - the cheapest filling most satisfying stuff. If the only thing I could buy was whole, good, natural food, I could deal with THAT.

My family lived in their fricking car and I LIKED IT what a nut i am, i know... that's kids for you.

Poverty is NO stranger to ME.

MOST EVERYBODY WANTS GOOD healthy food available for themselves, their families. Rich, poor, Everyone.

GOOD HEALTHY NOURISHING FOOD FOR EVERYONE.

~~~

I spoke about the gardening in response to several posts about growing your own making it sound like gardening is an idyllic existence. I said it was hard work, and that the main issue for many was space to do it. I also said that if you want to eat cheaply by either gardening or foraging, you can't be too picky.

That said, it's easy to assume that "well intentioned posters" such as me and some others do not know what it's like to be poor or homeless, or how it feels to work seemingly endless hours to make ends meet. I'm no stranger to any of these things. But, I haven't had the additional burden of having to raise children.

That said, I feel that this discussion should be about finding constructive solutions regarding obesity and poverty. Gardening can be a piece in the puzzle for some, but is no panacea. And, it is hard work, particularly when you have a full time job or more, as I do, and have additional responsibilities, which I don't.

And, for many it isn't practical or possible. So, you look for other ways to improve your nutrition, including advocating for changes in the system. And, maybe some well intentioned types will be there to lend you a helping hand.

This entire issue is so more complex than a few simple steps, and I think many who've commented would agree with that. 

With poverty comes depression and quite frankly what I've seen in so many is...they just don't care anymore. It's not because they are lazy but more so exhausted. 

As a nation right now we're so focused on the size of our neighbor rather than if that neighbor is making a living wage..

If we can improve the quality of life for those who are trying..working..or attempting to find employment then improvements in other areas of life will follow..

Let's care more about whether or not that poor person can find a job at a living wage rather than their waist size...

It's funny...I'm generally hyper-sensitive when it comes to anything dealing with poverty and/or obesity. And no doubt about it, there is a LOT of prejudice in this country on both accounts.  However, I can't say I found this article to be offensive in that way--it seemed to me like the writer was genuinely trying to come up with ways to make healthier foods more available to people who don't currently have access to them. As for the idea to limit the use of food stamps to not include soda, chips, and other foods entirely devoid of nutrition, while I can see how some might find that objectionable, it didn't seem all that unreasonable to me, because it's essentially the same idea behind only taxing those foods and not the others, and that applies to everyone, not just low income people or those on public assistance. The point is that those are basically non-food items, so they should be treated differently than food items. As the writer said, it's fine to buy them if you want to, but why spend govt. money on them when they are not actually providing any nutrients for your body? And when you give someone the same amount of money for food but make non-food items invalid to purchase with that money, combined with providing cheaper fruits and vegetables that have been subsidized, wouldn't that free up more funds to buy stuff with actual nutritional value?

The ending grain subsidies and supplanting them with fruit and veg subsidies is a vital part of getting this off the ground. However, there were several major other factors missing here. If there is one thing that will curb the spread of not just obesity but also the far more insidious Type II diabetes epidemic, it's PUTTING RESTRICTIONS OR EVEN BANNING THE USE OF HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP. We live in a country where practically all processed foods are spiked with this poison, and if you look at graphs charting the obesity crisis compared to graphs charting the usage of HFCS, you'll find they're virtually identical. 

Secondly, GMO and other chemicals and pesticides are also very valid concerns to address. But I would also suggest a campaign involving subsidies and incentives, combined with education and promotion, to make vegetarian alternatives to meat and dairy products more available. The most hormone-laden, pesticide-rich and toxin-saturated foods are those highest on the food chain, and when you also figure in cholesterol, saturated fats, kidney stones and even osteoporosis (yes, dairy drains the calcium from your bones and causes osteoporosis), you begin to realize that reducing or eliminating animal product consumption is essential to maintaining a healthy diet. Not to mention, veg. foods are cheaper to produce, better for the environment, and better for increasing overall food availability because they take up so much less land to grow!! So by "mainstreaming" the idea of vegetarian alternatives (including subsidizing the farming of organic soybeans, legumes, etc.), we can achieve multiple benefits for both the health of the American people and the health of our environment. (Not to mention help alleviate hunger overall).

Finally, I'll say that I agree that we need to stop obsessing over obesity. The issue is not so much obesity itself, which can often be caused by factors that have nothing to do with food, but rather the health issues caused by eating highly processed, chemical-laden and otherwise unhealthy foods with lead to atheroschlerosis, high blood pressure, heart attacks, strokes, cancer, Type II diabetes, osteoporosis, early-onset puberty, the list goes on and on....

Oh--and for the record, I do know what it's like to not have access to food for lack of money. I've experienced plenty of times subsisting on ramen noodles, stretching a single dollar for days on end by buying 25-cent snack packs, and not being able to afford tomatoes for an entire fall and winter because they were out of season. But if someone gave me money for food and made the fruits and veg I was craving more available, you can bet I would have picked the fruit and veg over the 25-cent snack packs. After all, if there's one thing worse than being broke, it's being broke and eating a diet that makes you physically feel like garbage.

I have already weighted in on food, and number 3. It not my job to monitor what other poor folks select to eat.  Know I cut out myvitimums to save cash, and my health paid for it.

Also know I know not what is in the other persons heart. Are they stopping at the convience store on a long trip to keep themselves hydrated? Juice's has nearly as much sugar as Pop.

It is too hard to play the role of god, deciding who should eat what, could be seen As playing a forceful god. Not even allowing the poor to decide what to eat, is a strong hold on the medieval idea of the poor are too stupid to make choices.

Along these lines My non profit Hospitality House Inc. Is asking other groups to join us, and make Human Rights day the day we attempt to bring POVERTY into the conversation i the real world by using search engines Yahoo and Google to make that topic in the top ten.

Then newspapers can not longer say The Public does not wish to hear about poverty. It may not be easy to get all the hits we need I will look up the word POVERTY a few times. By using the same word on Dec. 10th, we insure that each kit counts.  I will try to hit Poverty alternatively at Y & G, for 101 times.

Needmany hitting both, browsers a few times to what ever amount they want, to get in the top 10. The top 10 or 20 popular searches, usual involve movie stars, its time the importance of ending "POVERTY" is pointed out.

A few people here have marked their calendars I hope they will tell their friends, and the groups they attend about this effort.  I am taking this Dec. 10th Search "Poverty", nation and world wide.

I do not think those playing god wants to give up their self righteous seats.  I do think us poor can speak out and at least hit number 10 from 12:01 AM to 12:00 PM on the 10th of December.

We are not playing god by saying that government dollars should not buy junk food.  You are free to do as you wish with your own money. How is that control?  Buy the junk food.  As I've stated before we are under the federal poverty line.  I have chosen not to let that define my life. We live within our means. By the way I love junk food.  I just know there is a limit to it.

Another idea I had was a mentorship program.  Where people can learn from others.  I for instance bake my own bread, and can put low-cost balanced meals together.  I  however lack organizational, and time-management skills.  I could benefit someone as a mentor, and I could also use a mentor.

When my kids were young I had WIC, and  loved it.  I didn't feel that it was limiting in any way.  I appreciated everything I got.  If there was something I didn't use, I just didn't get it.  I didn't feel I was "owed" something to replace that item. 

I hate the fact that poor people present themselves as victims of the rest of the world.

As far as a living wage health care is crying for workers.  From filing to CNA's to Doctors.  They generally pay fairly well also.

Michelle - Sorry, but poor people in this country ARE victims. And food stamps are not a gift to appreciate, they are one of many entitlements won by activists who took to the streets decades ago.

Poor people are victims of historical racism, out-of-control capitalism and corporate greed without concern about the exploitation, suffering and disposal of human beings. That doesn't mean that poor people are powerless over the limited choices they do have. Many of them are creative and resourceful in finding ways to survive and form communities.

But as individuals, poor peole will be crushed one-by-one whenever they resist America's repressive economic and political systems, until they finally effectively organize and demand real structural changes to end poverty in this country once and for all.

The key is not just making healthier food affordable, it needs to be made more accessible.  If you spend time in low-income neighborhoods you will quickly see that the closest grocery store is often pretty far away.  Gas stations and other convenience stores tend to be the closest and easiest when your main mode of transportation is by foot. And they don't carry fresh fruits and vegetables.  Healthier bodies requires a more holistic approach that includes community development, otherwise you have more affordable fruits and vegetables but a lack of means to get to it.

Alexandra, you hit the nail right on the head!

I agree. In many rural areas your choice is the one store in town...or a gas station. I also find it funny that when someone speaks up about what it is like to be in a position where there is economic hardship then they are considering being in a "victim" role.

And as far as healthcare crying out for workers...well the ONE hospital in my county isn't...but then I guess some on here would say "move" ...as if that is as easy as one, two three...

We're living in a different time, the current poor no longer come from generational cycles of welfare living - now they are former executives applying for 8 per hour seasonal employment at waterparks, and other tourist spots...

Those who play god just do not realize they are. And I lack the words to actual point that fact out, as the people who say buy junk food with your own money knows not if the soda is brought on the way through to go job hunting.

I have seen in a soup kitchen a blond female  child of 12 years old, or so reduced to tears by a church lady accusing her of stealing food when she went back for her first helping.

She was helping her mother take the 3 little ones through the line. She was un consolable, and could not bring herself to eat, her first serving the church ladies said they did nothing wrong. This is the attitude of #3. Greg and people like see's themselves as being  divinely appointed the food partrol.

Just like the church ladies which brought that 12 years old to tears, and robbed her of a bit of her self esteem, you are not willing to listen with an open heart, as will as an open mind. That day those well intentioned church ladies did more lasting harm than good.

I feel bad for church ladies so set in their own righteous they will not learn.

Because I am a provider of services I can set with, either the Church ladies, or the the clients they think are lowly, Not that I get their often I sat with the Church ladies once. All they did was put down those they were suppose to be helping.

I try not to judge others, because there are many facts I do not know. So guess which side of the table is most confortable for me to  I eat at?

When we know that others will be better off following our path, and degrade them if we think they do not-We also are part of the problem. We are "playing god."

I do not know If I am am playing god on my path.  I only hope the creators puts it out when I am because I am the person who is hurt by such. I want to educate people. That might be my will, not solely gods. I have not walked in your shoes. I am ready to be corrected.

Yes advocates went to the streets long ago. With aderation  we pick up Martin Luthers King Jr cloak, and go again to the street now. Now is time of change. In change we must be willing our mind sets. 

It is thinking 70% of all jobs are not worth the cost of living which gives us poverty.  WE fly, have gone to the moon things said to be unobtainable, in my grandmothers and great grand mothers day.

As I implied,  I feel pity for the church ladies who begrudgely support the body of their sisters and brothers while at the same time degrading them.  

Thanks to you all for your comments over the last few days.  This is an extremely important issue, and I'm glad to have so many voices here that are interested in addressing what is a growing obesity problem in all communities (rich and poor).  Whether you agree with me or not, I'm just grateful that you're all here to share your ideas.

I think the greatest criticism of my original post is that I missed the human dignity issues related to restricting what food stamp recipients are able to buy with their benefits.  In my opinion, limiting things that are not only unhealthy, but potentially dangerous, does not (or should not) take away from a person's ability to feed themselves and their families, and thus, should not be seen as imposing any unrealistic or unfair requirements.

Moreover, the government already limits what people are able to purchase with food stamps.  For example, you are not allowed to purchase alcohol or cigarettes, so why should purchasing high fat foods (that we know hurts the body and can cause long-term diseases just as drinking and smoking can) be any different?

One thing that I should make clear is that I don't want to go through every single product on earth and say, "This one is OK to purchase, or, this one is not OK."  What I want to do is create a blacklist of products that are completely devoid of any nutritional value, and restrict food stamp dollars from purchasing them.

The one problem I see with this is defining what "products that lack any clear nutritional value" means.  Big Ag and the food processors (as we've seen through the Smart Choices issue) would obviously want more processed foods included in such a definition than say a nutritionist would.

Also, the suggestions I make are contingent upon a fairly substantial change in how food is produced and consumed.  With fresh fruits and vegetables being as costly as they are right now, it's pretty unrealistic to assume that many food stamp recipients would shift their current buying patterns simply because of a fear of getting too many calories.

As many of you have stated in your comments, this is a more complicated issue than how I originally presented it.

An unfair distribution of wealth creates poverty, which then creates hunger and often leads to unhealthy food choices that in turn lead to obesity, and in the end, the development of diseases such as diabetes.  We need to address all of these issues, starting with the poverty itself, in order for anything to change.

There's an underlying issue here: the only reason anyone cares about what anyone else eats is that the American public is being brainwashed by the healthcare debate. If you truly believe that you have the right to tell other people what to eat just so you can have a $5 doctor's visit, you've already drunk the Kool-Aid. What we really need (and will never happen) is to eliminate the middle-man in healthcare--the insurance companies. Without those behemoths, people would deal (sit down, this may be a shock) directly with their doctors (at lower costs) and decide together what a patient needs to do to be healthy. If that patient chooses to ignore the advice, that patient may die sooner. That's a choice activity and should not be in the purview of insurance companies, government or anyone else unless that individual is totally incapable of making any decisions. I am truly tired of the politically correct deciding that only they can choose what is best for everyone. Mind your own business, eat what you want and live (or not) with the results. Do any of you really sit down to watch a football game with a bowl of ... broccoli or tasteless cauliflower or maybe dandelions?

On the food end, if fat-free or no-sugar types of foods were priced the same as or lower than the fat- and sugar-laden snacks, I think a lot more people would choose them. Just one tiny example: I buy sugar substitute because I use very little sugar, but it costs 10X what a 5-pound bag of granualated sugar costs. Fat-free products cost more than regular ones. How does it cost more to have fewer ingredients?

I'm not below poverty level, but definitely on restricted income this year as a self-employed person whose income has dropped 50% due to the recession--and it does affect what I buy. For example, there are fewer sugar-free drinks in the house (water gets pretty boring) and fat-free milk costs more, so we opt for 1% or 2%. I'm neither in the all-junk-all-the-time category nor the politically correct soy nibbler category (another tasteless yet popular food in my opinion, though I don't care if others eat it). I rarely buy packaged meals of any sort because I know how to cook. I'm just an average person trying to balance some tasty treats with a consideration of  healthy vs. unhealthy choices. The key word here is 'choice.' If you've ever eaten MREs, you know what government-mandated food 'choices' would taste like. And watch for those in-home surveillance cameras to follow in the next generation. I'll take free choice over all the nanny-state choices any time, even though I'm a registered Democrat.

Another issue regarding "choice" is the way that supersized franchise's like Mickey D's market their fat, sugar and artificial ingredient laden pseudo food to children, particularly in the inner cities and to minorities. Many children grow up thinking that this garbage is a good deal when even their salads are unhealthy.

As a culture, we've increasingly cracked down on tobacco companies targeting children to be their next addicts. Where do we draw the line between free speech and a supposedly free marketplace and mega corporations that brainwash impressionable youth into poor health decisions by endless wholesome appearing commercials as they lure our youth into their stores with free toys and brightly colored playgrounds.

I have a NEW product.

It's a clever mixture of Processed Pork Fat, Processed Beef Fat, Tallow, Hydro fake vegetable fats, (SOOOOO cheap for me) Sugar, (addictive) Corn Syrup, (addictive) Corn Syrup Solids, (addictive) Salt, (addictive) MSG (SUPER addictive), acid (addictive), flour (addictive), chemicals, (addictive), colorings, (drug you AND fool your eye), texturizers, (fool your mouth), thickeners, (fool your body), chemical flavorings. (super cheap, addictive & fools your tastebuds)

OH! and I'll throw in some SUPER cheap fake artificial vitamins and minerals that cost me virtually nothing so i can shut up the nutrition crowd. They're idiots and I can FOOL THEM TOO.

I'm going to zero in on YOUR CHILDREN, SELL SELL SELL to THEM - AND also sell to ALL of you who ESPECIALLY susceptible to addiction, vulnerable to manipulation.

Your children are PRIZE victims for my product sales. (I will pay TONS for glossy subliminal manipulative advertising)

Your children will BEG endlessly for my products. You will have NO relief because THEY WILL BE ADDICTED.

You can do NOTHING - it's LEGAL. My attys are better than YOURS and ALWAYS will be. What are you going to do? Stop buying my addictive products when that's ALL you can buy because I'm the ONLY SUPPLIER IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD?

Yup. That's what I'm GOING TO DO!!!!!

NOT!!!!!!!

If I did the above, I would feel like garbage. But then, I have this rediculous idea that all children are precious, all need to be fed decent, real, wholesome food, and that foisting crap on them is EVIL DIABOLICAL bad.

But they do this to YOUR KIDS ALL DAY LONG. Then they laugh all the way to the bank at the expense of  YOUR child's life long health and happiness.

And if you're poor? Inner City? Rural slums? Ha. Survival of the Fittest, Baby. IT'S NOT OUR CONCERN.

HUNH.

What's wrong with this picture?

Here's the thing that I think gets to me about this entire conversation, that there's this underlying message that poor people are stupid and don't know what is good for them...maybe I am taking it the wrong way - but when I read certain posts that's the message I walk away with

An Us ...Them...attitude -

Any good mother out there wants to feed her children healthy -well rounded meals....financial status doesn't dictate that.

And I think most would agree with that.

Eva, you and others have pointed out to Greg and some of us other "do gooders" to try to not be condescending and patronizing. I am trying to just make suggestions as part of this discussion as a person who has worked in homeless shelters and has dealt with food banks, who has volunteered for soup kitchens and who has also been homeless. I'm have a basic knowledge of nutrition (because I am not a nutritionist) and have some knowledge of how the system works. Others know how the system works from different perspectives.

I feel that the objective of this discussion should be to try to reach common sense solutions regarding the presenting problems of obesity, poverty, poor nutrition, etc. I realize that if I speak down to the people that I'm hoping to help that people won't listen to me. On the other hand, if we do gooders have to be politically correct with every utterance, it makes it difficult for us to participate.

So, while I feel that we all should be sensitive to the other sides' feelings, we also shouldn't be overly sensitive regarding what the other side is saying. We have a very difficult situation to address and both the do gooders and people in need of assistance have similar ends in mind. I feel that we need to focus more on the end in mind, rather than whether we're being looked down upon, or are being patronizing.

And, for each side, a little humility would go a long way toward accomplishing this, as none of us are close to having all the answers.

WALK A MILE IN THE SHOES OF THOSE UNDERPAID.

Sorry I do not want just the words to be politically correct, I want the feelings.  As long as any do gooder (Your Word Andrew) does not recognize is the obesity problem is being paid LESS than it cost to live we are mired in Human lack.

I used the illustration of the church ladies, giving for all the wrong reasons. It hurts themselves, when what they want is raise their own esteem. That is when they make 12 year girls cry because the Church lady accuses her of Stealing Food.

All I want from who do good for others so the do gooder can feel great about themselves is:  1) Put aside your already hold ideas to hear out people speaking from experience. 2) Pretend you are poor. How do you want to be approached. As not knowing what the best food choices?  Or As not having the money to acquire the best choice?

If the problem is the second, Then educating will NOT Cure the problem So people playing God, do not realize are doing more harm then good.

I ask people like Greg  'How many times a day do you say "they will be done?" '  Or do you think you know MORE than the poor? 

We are correct to revolt and not listen to someone who IS ON the WRONG Track. Else we will not get out of poverty. We need to be paid enough to buy healthy meals. That IS the Solution, plain and simple. But people like you keep saying "We want to aid 50% out of poverty.  Us at the bottom wants 100%. Since the dawn of time we have tried YOUR WAY it does not do the trick. It is time to try our way.

I assume you are a good person. I ask only you set aside your preconceived ideas and LISTEN to us. Figure out how you would feel in our place-when our advocates brings children to tears-they could be wrong.   And if we are educating, while the difficulty is Lack of funds we are wasting our time.

I close by asking hear our words hear our meaning. Pretend, we know what we are talking about when we give economic human rights. Sharing better IS the answer.

I do not wish to be humble, nor do I want you to be humble. Just examine what can be improved, if all of us paid less than it cost to live, are right! Examine the possibilities, PLEASE.

Greg, as an overweight woman who is jobless and has three kids to support, I would just like to say...KEEP YOUR NOSE OUT OF MY REFRIGERATOR AND YOUR EYES OFF MY BATHROOM SCALE!!

Seriously. You don't see your sexism in demanding that girls be skinny or they're not healthy? 

Now you're trying to backpedal and say it's about more than poor diets. But that wasn't your original post.

I'm sure you're a good person who meant well. But really, read the comments from the people who disagree with you -- the WOMEN who disagree with you -- and try to take them to heart. We're trying to educate you. You need it.

Again, I believe you're the first person to even use the word "skinny" in this entire discussion.  My original post was about fighting obesity in low-income communities (because poverty is clearly linked to being overweight), not about my desire for all girls to be skinny.  Zero back peddling, sorry.

I could care less how much anyone weighs, really.  What I do care about is that people who don't have access to healthy food are more likely to develop diet related diseases.  Is the fact that being overweight helps cause these diseases completely lost on you?  It's not about size or perceived attractiveness, it's about being healthy.

Things seem to have become a tad testy in these exchanges, which is no way for us to find solutions that we can reach a consensus on. To begin with, obesity might be CORRELATED with poverty, but there are many other reasons for it besides poor food choices, lack of exercise poverty, poor self control, etc. So, while we should all do what we can to create conditions that create an environment where good (or at least better) nutrition is available to everyone, we shouldn't be pointing fingers at each other regarding their figures, eating habits, etc.

Also, the current medical evidence is that it's healthier to exercise and to be overweight than it is to be at your ideal body weight and not exercise.

And, as I said earlier in this discussion, there are a multitude of factors contributing to poverty, poor nutrition and obesity. Ultimately all we can control is what we do with our own lives and do what we can given the resources we have to be as healthy as possible. But, often the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. I'm not going to tell anyone that I'm a model of healthy eating and regular exercise, because I could do significantly better, as could the vast majority of us. And, one shouldn't criticize anyone until you've walked in their shoes. By the same token, if you're someone who is in a bad economic situation, is getting poor nutrition and is obese and/or unhealthy, it's on you to try to change your circumstances to the best of your ability in whatever way you can within the limits of your ability, if you want to. You are the one who will suffer if you're in poor physical shape, as I have at have at some points in my life by being in poorer physical shape than I'd like.

And, I've also discovered as many have before me, that once you're in less than ideal physical shape, it's gets harder and harder to get back into shape, the older one gets. And, while I no longer have any economic or availability or lack of opportunity to exercise issues that I can blame on anyone else, staying in shape is not easy!

Greg, with all respect to you, and as a heads up,  you  degard your readers, with your words.

Some of these exchanges remind me of an experience I had as a welfare mom on food stamps. In the crowded waiting area of the local welfare office, a woman walked up to the front of the room and began speaking in a loud voice to the captive audience facing her. Turns out that she was a presenter from the local Cooperative Extension, and her topic was how to stretch our food stamps by making cheap nutritious meals. Very few people expressed any interest in listening to her, but we had no choice but to passively listen to her presentation as we waited to see our workers. As she went on about how nice it could be to eat beans instead of meat, and how we could buy discounted produce instead of fresh produce, I couldn't hold back any longer. "How about giving us more in food stamps so that we don't have to eat beans and spoiling vegetables?" Several people in the room voiced agreement and asked the woman the same question again in their own words. Ms. Cooperative Extension continued her presentation as if no one had spoken. We were a bunch of nobodies who needed to be educated, not human beings with good ideas or the right to make demands. We didn't even have the right to sit in silence with our own thoughts.

Deborah,

That person may have been insensitive. But, how is someone who wishes to help able to help if all you want is for them to give you more money or food stamps with no questions asked, because that isn't going to happen?

Whether it's government or private charities or individuals, the people and entities that provide food or the means to buy food want some accountability. This is why recipients now get food stamp cards, instead of the old paper stamps - so they don't sell the stamps for 30 or 50 cents on the dollar for cash so they can buy alcohol or tobacco.

Like it or not, whenever one is on the dole in any way, the people and entities that provide the assistance generally ask nosy questions. In homeless shelters the clients are expected to be in day programs where they get counseling or have jobs. People with disabilities who live in residential programs have counselors working on goals with them while those of us who live without such assistance only have to deal with nagging spouses and family members.

Like it or not, this is the way the world works. Things definitely could be done in more efficient and helpful ways that treat the recipients with more dignity. That's what this discussion should be about. It's easy to criticize and complain. It's making constructive suggestions that might make improvements in the way that services are delivered that's hard.

Well said Andrew! I don't get food stamps, but I buy the "discounted produce,"  and have learned to add beans to my meat to make it stretch.  I use my own hard-earned dollars for this, and I am not angry about it, I don't understand why you are Deborah.  There are a lot of people here in poverty, myself included, that don't feel more "entitlements" are the answer.  I also live in a rural area.  There are no jobs in my town.  I have the choice to stay, go, or commute, Eva.  The point is I have choices, no one is making me do anything. The food stamp program is ever evolving.  I say expand the "black-list."  The federal government shouldn't be paying for your junk-food, and the toll it takes on your health.

As, like Greg, I said that nobody has all the answers, I'll explain what I mean without going into the considerable details:

First, I should have added that no one person or group has all the answers and the MEANS to change what needs changing.

One thing that needs to be changed is the highly uneven distribution of wealth.

Another thing that needs to be changed is the inequalities in our educational system that favor the rich over the poor.

Another thing that needs to be changed is the way that food is produced and what government subsidizes.

Another thing that needs to be vastly improved is accessibility to healthy, fresh food for the poor. As I noted in a previous post, food banks often don't have the refrigeration facilities to store as many fresh food donations as they could receive.

Housing and jobs are part of this equation.

Immigration is part of this equation.

The criminal "justice" system is part of this situation.

The huge amount of money we spend on the military is part of this equation.

The lack of health care for everyone is part of this problem.

And, another part of this problem is that some trying to help are too preachy and don't listen well enough and that some of the people needing help have poor self esteem and/or pent up anger due to their situations and how they have been treated in the past and are very resistant to any advice that they feel would further demean them. Each side needs to work on their issues regarding this, me included.

I could go on and on, but the point I want I make is that all these things are interconnected to one degree or another and that we need experts, generalists, and people with connections.

The one thing that the President is doing that many don't understand is that he is trying to change all these things at once and he is asking people of strong and varying viewpoints for their feedback. This is how to "brainstorm" solutions to what seem like insoluble problems.

I don't have the time to read through every comment above, so its possible this point has already been made, but I think one huge oversight in your assessment of the problem is the convenience of eating pre-packaged, processed, and prepared foods (that tend to be less healthy/cheaper/fattier etc.).  Poor people aren't only driven to less healthy food because the provide the biggest caloric bang for their buck, they are also much faster to prepare (or, in the case of fast food, are already prepared for you).  When you are working multiple jobs or long hours to make ends meet, coming home and preparing fresh foods from scratch or near-scratch ingredients is not feasible.  I'm not sure how to address this issue without much more systemic poverty reform, but I think it is one of the biggest and least well addressed problems in this discussion.

When I've been completely broke - like after my disability was cut off in 1979... I grew, and lived exclusively on, assorted Sprouts. They can be grown in any apartment, and don't have any big requirements to be grown. You just need some kind of container to germinate the seeds.

Dollar-for-dollar / pound-for-pound, fast food is far more expensive. A McDonalds burger actually costs more than an equivalent Filet Mignon. When people begin to realize things like that, maybe they'll make the "choice" to eat better.

I see a lot of anger over these arguments, but if you read over and over - this is the kind of OPEN DEBATE that I thought this site was supposed to be about.

Sometimes it takes some anger to get the passions flowing. There's not always just one solution, either...

I see a lot of anger over these arguments, but if you read over and over - this is the kind of OPEN DEBATE that I thought this site was supposed to be about.

Sometimes it takes some anger to get the passions flowing. There's not always just one solution, either...

I see a lot of anger over these arguments, but if you read over and over - this is the kind of OPEN DEBATE that I thought this site was supposed to be about.

Sometimes it takes some anger to get the passions flowing. There's not always just one solution, either...